See ya…

There are tons of things in the Bible that are misundertood, as all of that you raised. Unfortunately as you know, lots of people use these as excuses to atrocity, and, beleive me, I rather people that think and have moral even when they don’t have spirituality.

They are misunderstood, yes, but deliberately so and by those who claim to be Christians. They act like Jesus abolished the entire OT, when in fact Jesus was a Jew who came to fulfill and confirm the OT. He observed the OT traditions, so if you want to be like Jesus, you should too.

Don’t just say that I’ve “misunderstood” and pretend that that makes all the garbage in the Bible OK. It doesn’t. It’s there, it was YOUR God’s holy command, and it’s not really MY problem that you choose to ignore it.

But, ok, let it be. I just want to know if you can explain me who tha hell is this “Pastafarian Noodliness” because as I said my English is very poor and in my Country we never heard about him before!!!! Just curious.. :-D

You’re thinking about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the only living deity worthy of worship, and the lord of God, Allah and all other gods of mere mortals. Read the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster if you don’t believe me. It’s all in there. 100% perfect proof that the FSM is the one, true god. 100% perfect proof that your religion is wrong, and that my religion is right. Guaranteed.

rAmen!

But, ok, let it be. I just want to know if you can explain me who tha hell is this “Pastafarian Noodliness” because as I said my English is very poor and in my Country we never heard about him before!!!! Just curious.. :-D

I showed you a error that your text contain, about a affirmative statement about the Bible. You said: “He hadn’t created himself as Jesus yet, so there’s really no one else to blame at this point.” Bible doesn’t teach this. You said: “God punished Adam and Eve for doing what they couldn’t possibly know not to do, since they couldn’t know that what they did was wrong and God himself made them capable of choosing whether to obey or disobey, thanks to free will.” Again: Bible did not teach this.

The Bible doesn’t teach you not to rape other people. Do you rape other people? The Bible doesn’t teach you that the world is round, or that it spins around the sun, not the sun around the earth. Do you believe the earth is flat? The Bible doesn’t teach you that 1+1=2, or that Pi=3.3.14159265… Do you think Pi=3?

What I said and explained is true, whether or not the Bible explicitly says it, because that’s how we know anything is true. We know it’s true because it cannot be any other way.

God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That is in the Bible. But what’s also in there is that they didn’t have that knowledge that the tree contained, and what’s also in there is that there was no death or suffering. Just as 1+1=2, even though the Bible doesn’t say so, it’s clear that Adam and Eve were cursed and punished for something they weren’t created to understand was wrong. That is the meaning of the words the Bible contains, even if it isn’t the exact words themselves.

The Bible does say to murder gays, stone adulterers and liars, and not eat shellfish. Have you ever eaten shrimp or lobster? Have you ever lied? Ever had a lustful thought? If you have, then the Bible does say that you should be punished. You should either turn yourself in to the authorities, or execute the punishment yourself.

Because, you know, that’s what the Bible says.

And to finish: Please, give the address of this beer volcano, would you? I’m not going to drink all night long (I’m too weak on this issue), but I think it would be possible have a lot of fun with it. I can prepare a fine Brazilian barbecue to complete the meal along with a nice play of cards!

Oooh, I’m sorry, you can’t. The volcano is invisible to unbelievers, and the beer can only be drunk by those who follow the Pastafarian Noodliness.

I was trying since the beginning to show you what is wrote on the Bible, not trying to teach you anything about beliefs. Whatever is your concepts, I’m a enthusiastic on texts, and I feel comfort to read and hear about different opinions, but I do like also to challenge the consistence of things. Your first text is genius, but there are things that is not written on Bible, that’s all. I respect the point of view from those that are not believing in God.

I showed you a error that your text contain, about a affirmative statement about the Bible. You said: “He hadn’t created himself as Jesus yet, so there’s really no one else to blame at this point.” Bible doesn’t teach this. You said: “God punished Adam and Eve for doing what they couldn’t possibly know not to do, since they couldn’t know that what they did was wrong and God himself made them capable of choosing whether to obey or disobey, thanks to free will.” Again: Bible did not teach this.

And to finish: Please, give the address of this beer volcano, would you? I’m not going to drink all night long (I’m too weak on this issue), but I think it would be possible have a lot of fun with it. I can prepare a fine Brazilian barbecue to complete the meal along with a nice play of cards!

Actually, what REALLY happened, according to the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is that His Noodliness created the water and the heavens, and the land. Then, he created a beer volcano, and drank all night. Because he was hung over, he created water and the heavens again, because he forgot he’d already done so. It’s all right there in the Gospel, so there’s really no reason for you to keep quoting that Bible at me. I’ve told you the truth, and if you want to ignore it, that’s on you.

“Jehova” is nothing compared to the deliciousness of the His Noodliness. RAmen.

I’m not trying to convince you to acceopt the view point of the Bible. Just showing you that what is there can be seen with other sight.

But first, let me finnally introduce myself. I’m Brasilian so, sorry for my poor English. And second I’m Jehovah Witness, so I’m not a biblical literalist.

Follow what I believe that happens at creation. And, no, the earth has not just 6000 years. :-D

”
Jehovah’s first creation was his “only-begotten Son” (Joh 3:16), “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Re 3:14) This one, “the firstborn of all creation,” was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, “the things visible and the things invisible.” (Col 1:15-17) John’s inspired testimony concerning this Son, the Word, is that “all things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence,” and the apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh. (Joh 1:1-4, 10, 14, 17) As wisdom personified, this One is represented as saying, “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way,” and he tells of his association with God the Creator as Jehovah’s “master worker.” (Pr 8:12, 22-31) In view of the close association of Jehovah and his only-begotten Son in creative activity and because that Son is “the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15; 2Co 4:4), it was evidently to His only-begotten Son and master worker that Jehovah spoke in saying, “Let us make man in our image.”—Ge 1:26.

After creating his only-begotten Son, Jehovah used him in bringing the heavenly angels into existence. This preceded the founding of the earth, as Jehovah revealed when questioning Job and asking him: “Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth . . . when the morning stars joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause?” (Job 38:4-7) It was after the creation of these heavenly spirit creatures that the material heavens and earth and all elements were made, or brought into existence. And, since Jehovah is the one primarily responsible for all this creative work, it is ascribed to him.—Ne 9:6; Ps 136:1, 5-9.

The Scriptures, in stating, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Ge 1:1), leave matters indefinite as to time. This use of the term “beginning” is therefore unassailable, regardless of the age scientists may seek to attach to the earthly globe and to the various planets and other heavenly bodies. The actual time of creation of the material heavens and earth may have been billions of years ago.
”

Regards.

It would be more productive if you keep thinking about the errors you pointed at the Genesis history, what do you think? See this way, and I can’t see the logical in your point yet.

I did think about what you claim are errors, but your problem is that I explained why they aren’t errors. That you fail to understand the logic I’ve presented is not a failure on my part.

I could trash all your argument after reading your opinion that God was alone at the creation of the humans. So, or you start again accepting that God was not alone, or we can stop here

As far as I’m aware, at no point in the Old Testament does it say that God was anything other than the One God, YAHWEH. There is no mention of Jesus or holy ghosts, and nothing to indicate that God wasn’t alone at the creation of the universe. You claim otherwise, so I ask that you present the chapter and verse from the Old Testament, specifically Genesis that you keep referring to, where it explains who, beside God, there was to talk to.

You’re also completely missing the point of my initial argument, which is valid even if God had, in fact, manifested himself in different personas or aspects. Does it make a difference if free will was given to Adam and Eve by Jesus? Is there anyone making God give humans free will? If not, what is your argument, exactly?

If you say a child to not put the hands in the oven, they really need to know “the moral” of that???

If you tell a child not to put their hand in the oven, but the child doesn’t even know what an oven is, how is it to know what not to do?

Let’s say I tell you, “don’t do that!” Now, you have no idea what it is I’m telling you not to do, but that’s not my problem. As soon as you do it, I’ll punish you. I don’t care that you have no idea what I’m talking about.

Now, when God told Adam and Eve that they shouldn’t eat the fruit, they understood that. They even understood why (because God said so) and what would happen if they did (they’d be cursed and die). I’m not arguing with you here. What I’m saying is that before eating the fruit, they did not possess what which the fruit was there to give, and that very thing was necessary for them to understand that not doing what God told them to was wrong.

Get it?

To end this, you didn’t understand my last point, the “So, you’re saying I have free will, but I don’t have a choice?” thing.

I did understand it, but it seems you did not even understand what it was I had a problem with. You said, and I quote, “to respect the choices of others is a duty that your free will not gives to you a chance to choose, you just have to do it”. You’re telling me that I have no choice in this matter. Those were your exact words. So, if I don’t have a choice, I don’t have free will.

So, unless you admit that your post is wrong from the beginning (as you said that God was alone) I’ll stop from here.

If God wasn’t alone, then you show me the verse that says who else was there. Until then, you haven’t in any way proven me wrong.

Lastly, you’re assuming the Bible is literally true, which is a problem in itself. If you mean to tell me that the mere usage of the words “us” and “our” proves that God was not alone (which in itself doesn’t actually have anything to do with my argument), are you also arguing that everything that follows Genesis is literally true? Is the earth 6000 years old? Did Jonah really live in the belly of a whale? Did zombies really rise from the graves after Jesus was crucified? Did Jesus actually curse a fig tree for not bearing fruit in off-season?

Either you’re a biblical literalist, or you accept that mere prose does not actually prove anything.

You raised others points beyond those ones that you first comment. Talking about sacrifice? I told you the inconsistent of your arguments inside your text, and you are pushing a discussion endless. It would be more productive if you keep thinking about the errors you pointed at the Genesis history, what do you think? See this way, and I can’t see the logical in your point yet. I could trash all your argument after reading your opinion that God was alone at the creation of the humans. So, or you start again accepting that God was not alone, or we can stop here – and that for me is alright, if YOU want to change the Christian’s concepts.

About the other think, the “supposition of good and bad”, common! You are acting like child – just as they did! If you say a child to not put the hands in the oven, they really need to know “the moral” of that??? Do they need to burn themselves to know that is bad? It’s is a law, and period. I have the “free will” of deciding to use drugs, even when lots say that this is not that bad. So, I don’t have to know for sure that something is bad to obey someone who I admit that is more clever that me. That’s free will, but whatever my decision is, It is my responsibility.

To end this, you didn’t understand my last point, the “So, you’re saying I have free will, but I don’t have a choice?” thing. Of course you have choices, but remember that you freedom goes until the point you disturb the freedom from another. I respect you if you think that there is no sense in any beliefs, and I pointed out what you forgot to tell AT YOUR ARGUMENT. So, unless you admit that your post is wrong from the beginning (as you said that God was alone) I’ll stop from here.

Thank you very much by your attention.

Unfortunately, the only mistakes are in your reply. Here’s why:

If you read Genesis chapter 1 versus 26 you’ll read: “And God said, Let us make man in our image”. Do you really think that He was talking with the animals?

If Jesus is not God himself, but a separate person that can be spoken to, what does that make of the sacrifice? If Jesus is God, then God was not speaking to the animals, he was speaking to himself. You chose which is more convenient to your beliefs: A god that will sacrifice other people for the sins of a third group of people, while taking no responsibility for any of it himself, or a God that does what in people would be a clear sign of mental illness.

So I ask you: How couldn’t they know what to do? [...] What God wanted was that his creatures obeyed him at one single law because they wanted to do it, not because they were programmed machines.

Without knowledge of good and evil, how were Adam and Eve supposed to know it was bad to disobey God? To them, it simply was. It was neither good nor bad, it simply was, and they simply did. God told them to do something, yes, but how were they supposed to comprehend that not doing something they are told is bad before gaining the knowledge of good and evil?

Your answer betrays the fact that you have not even considered this problem, instead merely taken what the Bible says literally, and trusted that it all makes sense in the end. Well, it doesn’t, and now that I’ve pointed this out, what will you do?

There are a lot of other inconsistent statements at your post, and I suggest you to be careful. To not believe in God is a choice that you have, but to respect the choices of others is a duty that your free will not gives to you a chance to choose, you just have to do it.

This doesn’t even make any sense. So, you’re saying I have free will, but I don’t have a choice? What good is free will without the ability to make choices? If I “just have to do it”, then how am I any better than what you call “programmed machines”?

Do point out all my other “inconsistent statements”, I’m eager to hear them. But before you do, try thinking about your own statements, and whether or not they are consistent. Being a hypocrite is indeed worse than simply being inconsistent, wouldn’t you say?